Season 3 Episode 1: But Can I Change?
In the first episode of our new season, Nancy brings us on a personal journey of change through self-loyalty.
In the episode, Nancy describes how she embarked on the most self-loyal year she's ever had, both in her business and her personal life, which culminated in the creation of Self Loyalty School. Nancy speaks with her friend and business collaborator, Hillary Rea. They discuss Hillary's storytelling philosophy and the work they've done together to cultivate self-loyalty through story. Then Nancy checks in with our favorite recurring guest, her husband Doug, to get his read on how she's been able to pivot toward self-loyalty over the past year.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
Nancy's journey to make the change to become self-loyal in her business and in her personal life.
Storytelling and communication tips from Hillary Rea.
How to learn more about Self Loyalty School.
Resources Mentioned:
Go to https://tellmeastory.info to learn more about Hillary and how to work with her.
Sign up for Hillary's Monthly Speak Up Session: https://www.tellmeastory.info/session
Learn more about Self Loyalty School:
+ Read the Transcript
Nancy: Hey guys, it's me. Nancy Jane Smith. A great big welcome back to a brand new season of the happier approach. The show that pulls back the curtain on the need to succeed, hustle, and achieve at the price of our inner peace in relationships. Last season, we went on a journey to the magical land of self loyalty and met up with all our old friends and frenemies along the way, like the Monger, the BFF and the Biggest Fan.
This season, we're tackling a new topic, change through a self loyal lens. How can we create change within ourselves while maintaining a tined mental attitude sounds easy. Right? Well, over the past year, I've made a lot of changes. And let me tell you it hasn't always been easy. I've tried to be more self loyal and the way I show up for my business and guess what it's actually changed, how self loyal I am in my day to day life too.
I funneled all of this newfound self loyalty into a course about high functioning anxiety. It's called self loyalty school. Creating this course is one of the most self loyal things I've ever done. It was a challenge I put myself to, to do something based on what I know works for my clients, rather than the script I've seen other people follow.
So to kick off the season, we'll take a look at where I started on my journey to being a self loyal business owner. We'll talk to my friend and business collaborator, Hillary Rea, plus our favorite reoccurring guest, my husband Doug, about what changes I've made to my life to bring me to this moment and how other folks can learn from that momentum.
So, first let's go back way back to when I first started my business 15 years ago.
I've been in business as a therapist and coach for 15 years. And for 14 of those years, I ran my business looking for what everyone else thought I should do. If I tried something new, I would go online and research what others were doing.
I called it going to committee. I would hunt down the right way to do everything-- the right way to write a sales page or get someone to sign up for my newsletter, even the right way to do my podcast. I would spend hours looking for the right way and then dive half-heartedly into the solution. Inevitably when the solution wasn't easy or magical, I would change my mind and the cycle would repeat. My business was fine, but I was bored with it.
I was tired of the cycle, but I didn't see a way out. When COVID blew up the world and many social norms, I started questioning everything and I asked myself, why am I doing this the way everyone else has done it? Maybe there isn't a right way. Maybe there are a thousand different ways. And I just need to find my way.
I saw that I was struggling with having self loyalty. Rather than listening to myself to ease my anxiety. I was going to committee. So if it didn't go well, I could blame the committee. And wouldn’t you know those committee sanctioned ideas, didn't really work. In 2020 my desire for change was different. I wanted to change not because I thought I was broken, but because I needed a different way, I wanted to bring more of myself into my business communication.
I wanted more self loyalty, so I committed to change the way I approached my business. I would stop looking to the experts and start looking within myself. And that led me to Hillary Rea.
Nancy: Okay. Hi Hillary.
Hillary Rea: Hello.
Nancy: I'm so excited to have you here. Oh my chair's squeaking. Hold on a minute. I should oil that for future interviews.
Hillary Rea: WD 40 would probably work.
Nancy: Hillary is the founder of a storytelling company based in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Hillary Rea: Yeah. I run a company called tell me a story, which is a communication consulting and coaching business, where I help folks use personal narrative storytelling as a powerful communication tool. So I work with folks on communicating through story and Nancy, I've known you for almost two years now, maybe a little bit more. We started working together on storytelling in the fall of 2020, I think.
Nancy: Yeah, it feels like a lot longer three years. I say that in a good way.
Nancy: When I decided I needed to bring more self loyalty to my business, Hillary was one of the key people who helped me make that change.
Hillary Rea: So I believe that if you have an audience, if you have listeners, if you have one person that you're communicating to even, or a group of people or thousands of people, I believe that if you share an experience from your life in the form of a story. That you have the ability to foster deeper connections with the people that you're communicating to.
You have the ability to inspire the people listening to think of their own life experiences and how they impact them and inspire them to communicate. It builds, trust it, sinks messages in it helps people remember you. And it's fun as the communicator to just say, Hey, this is who I am, and I'm going to have fun sharing a piece of who I am with you.
Nancy: I was drawn to Hillary's work because I was trying to be more vulnerable by bringing more of my personal stories into my business, through my newsletter and my podcast. But I kept running up against the same problem.
Nancy: I love storytelling, but I couldn't bring myself and say I into my work. I needed to come from the statement of you. You, you are feeling this. You're feeling that.
Nancy: The common wisdom of business communication is that my business isn't about me. It's about you, the client and what I can do for you. But what I learned from Hillary is that personal storytelling and vulnerability can actually connect with people more than that traditional you, you, you approach. A while ago, she even wrote about it in her newsletter.
Hillary Rea: It was around what you were just saying about speaking from I versus speaking from you or we, and I was really trying to encourage people to think about I not as like a self-indulgent way to communicate, but that it's okay to use I and still be in service of the people that you're communicating with. And so I used this example of this sales person. So I am, by the time this comes out, I'll be over 39 and a half, maybe 40. And so this was something that happened to me when I was 18 or 19. It was a Dwayne Reed in Manhattan. I was in college. For those that maybe don't live in New York, Dwayne Reed is like, a Walgreens or CVS. They were one of the first drug stores. Like now I feel like drug stores have like beauty departments. Dwayne Reed like had that before it was popular, there were like French drugstore products. So there was like a sales rep at this random Duane Reed in Manhattan that had a table set up.
And I think it was Vichy or Vishy. I remember the brand specifically. And I was walking down the aisle and like, you know, drug stores don't have the greatest lighting. Like it is cool toned the fluorescents, right? And there's like vomit colored carpeting on the ground and all of that. So I walked by, I don't even know what I was there for.
Like, I don't know. Let's say I was there for toothpaste. I don't remember, but I like walked down this aisle cause it was on the way to the checkout. And this woman stopped me and said, excuse me, I see that you're struggling with acne. Have you ever thought about using this or she said you have acne something like, it was a you statement. And I was like 18 or 19.
I had had acne for like, since sophomore year of high school. And it was like traumatizing. Like it wasn't the worst situation in the world, but I, you know, it was under the care of a dermatologist. It like really had messed with my self-esteem, especially in high school. So when the person said you are struggling with acne or suffering from acne, or you have bad acne or whatever it was that she said, I was so taken aback and I like ran out of the store. Like I don't even, I didn't steal the toothpaste. I just dropped whatever I had. And like, didn't buy it or I bought it quick and I left. But I was really upset afterwards and it stuck with me. I think a lot of sales tactics are like, you are this, you feel this way. And so that's why I shared that story in my newsletter.
I was like, what if that woman had shared a personal experience about her using that cream? There had to have been another way that her and I could have fostered a connection if she really actually wanted me to buy something.
Nancy: Obviously in this case, the YOU YOU YOU tactic did not work. And I had an inkling. It wasn't the right approach for my business either.
Hillary Rea: Can I ask you a question or will that throw everything?
Nancy: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Hillary Rea: Do you feel like this idea of more vulnerable, does it feel more emotionally draining or heavy to quote unquote be more vulnerable, AKA like using I and using stories?
Nancy: I wouldn't say it feels more heavy. I would say that in order to write, and before I do a newsletter, I have to get really present with myself and kind of tap into that self loyalty, tap into that voice of the biggest fan.
And then when I can do that, it doesn't feel heavy. Like it just feels really natural. It's when I'm writing and I'm trying to rush through it. And I haven't done the settling down that my monger comes in to say, you know, who do you think you are? You're being, self-absorbed no cares about your story.
And so that's when it can feel heavy, it's such a different energy to tell stories in that way and to be really present. And I think it has infiltrated a lot of my life, not just my professional life, but in my personal life of showing up and being more present and being more vulnerable in how I share.
So I'm interested to hear how you have seen my approach change. Hillary Rea: So I've worked with you now for a little bit over a year. Like we've been working together on storytelling. I would say communication wise, it's a complete 180 and I mean that in like, the most positive sentence. And it's also not that like anything you were doing before was terrible, but I feel like I know you, I know your work and your expertise, and I know what you believe in.
I know what differentiates your work and your expertise from others. I trust you more because of how much of yourself you're sharing in addition to what it is that you're sharing. I can get transported into your ideas in a whole new way.
Nancy: But obviously this change didn't happen overnight for me. And it doesn't really happen that way for anyone. Not even Hillary. Hillary Rea: It's not that you start telling stories or I start telling stories and everything's like, poof, I'm loyal to myself. And everyone gets me. There's always these layers. And maybe it's similar to your spirals of like, oh, cool. That felt really great. Oh no. What are these people going to think? Oh no, I have unsubscribes from my newsletter.
No one's listening to my podcast. Like all of those voices come back, even if they're not true. And then you kind of have to like keep pushing through, or I have to keep pushing through. Nancy: No, I would agree. It has not been a smooth process, how I was communicating before or how I ran my business before was very comparing myself to other people.
So I spent a lot of time seeing what other people were doing and trying to apply that to my business. And I dialed it in, in the sense of, I just kind of did an overview of, if you have high functioning anxiety, you're into people pleasing, you're into perfectionism. And I would just say the, the catch phrases.
Without really showing it. And now I feel like there's so much more richness because I could be like, ah, here's a story of how people pleasing showed up that I wasn't realizing that illustrates it so much.
I remember one day I had just cooked dinner and then I ran downstairs to switch the laundry over. And I was like, oh, I’ve got to hurry. I’ve got to hurry. Doug is going to be mad at me because I'm taking so long to do the laundry. And then I thought, dude, you're doing the laundry for your family. You know, like this benefits, both of you you've cooked a dinner for both of you.
Now you're doing laundry. You're not, you know, down here watching TV. You’re doing stuff. And that's a great example of people pleasing and the extra layer of that. And I think that's where this has helped.
Hillary Rea: You’re also showing people that it's not, you're not doing a, you have acne kind of performance. You're like showing people like, Hey, I am an expert in this thing because of my degree, my background, my clients that I've worked with, but also I have this thing and it doesn't go away, but here I know how to help you because I'm in a different place with it. And I know what you're going through. And here are some stories that like, I don't have to convince you because here are some stories about that. So to me, it just feels like it doesn't diminish your credibility. If anything, it enhances it.
Nancy: No, I think anytime you're going to make change, if it does require, because this has been a major change for me and I didn't realize it was happening, I was like, oh, I want to add more storytelling to my business. And, you know, Hillary has got to help me do that and beginning, middle, and end and et cetera, et cetera. But I didn't really realize how it would change. Not only my, it would change everything. You know, it would change how I approached my business and how I approached my work and how I approach my marriage, how I show up with my friends, that it really helped me build self loyalty. I want to hear what is your personal definition of self loyalty?
Hillary Rea: I think actually the other, a couple of weeks ago, I was asked to define vulnerability. And I answered it as a way of showing up for myself and a way of showing up for other people. And I would say self loyalty is a way I can show up for myself so that I can show up for other people. So I see it as it's a kindness, but it's also like a truth telling that has to start with me before I can get to other people.
Nancy: Do you have a story of a time you saw me being self loyal? Hillary Rea: All the time. Can I say that? But also in what you're doing with your course is like, I would say 250% self loyalty, because you were like, I don't want to do this like anyone else, I want to do this the way, like format wise, how I want to do it. And I also want to do it in a way that's going to make the most sense for the people that really need this. And I want to use storytelling the whole time. And so that to me was like you committing to that and trusting that over, like seeing what's the right quote unquote way to like put a course out into the world.
Nancy: Um, what is your relationship with change? Do you like it? Do you hate it?
Hillary Rea: So I both love change and hate it. Here's an example of hating it. I always order the same thing at every restaurant. Like if I go to a restaurant and I've tried, like, I guess at one point I had to try something new. Right? But if that was then the thing I loved, I always get it.
Always. Like for lunch yesterday, I like treated myself to order takeout and I like got the same thing that I always get vegan, Buffalo wings and French fries from this one plate. Nancy: Do you debate changing it or you just always, you don't even debate it?
Hillary Rea: No. However, I'm also really big into like long-term drastic challenges that work towards a change. So I did this meditation thing. Like I meditated every single day for over a year, a handful of years ago. And now I meditate a couple times a week and I like am fine with that, but that was a huge change for me. I have just like two decision-making queues in my brain. And one is like, everything has to be this way all the time.
Or let's just go for the total other thing, but I'm going to take little steps to get there. I think it's always like I have to get a big awakening of, I need this to change, but then I take small steps and repetitive steps to get there.
Nancy: What do you think it's important for people to be aware of as we are doing change in our lives?
Hillary Rea: Trying something new on a menu probably could lead to a new favorite food, which I'm now saying out loud for myself, because it's funny. I'm like very into change in other aspects. I just think, you're never going to know what the change will feel like or what the change will allow you to actually do, or allow you to understand about yourself.
There's no way to predict what that's going to feel like, look like, be like. And so if I'm too focused on that, what's it going to be like, feel like, look like. I'm never going to do it, but if I look at all the changes, I have made and I don't have any like big life quote, unquote life changing moment or anything, but if I look at all of the like small changes I've made ,the right thing to do was to make the choice to change whether I knew what was going to happen or not.
Nancy: Yeah. Cause I think that's why I love the concept of self loyalty so much because even if it doesn't work out, you're still, you, you know, like that idea.
And I think there's a lot of, I know for me, there's always been a lot of disconnecting of oh, but I need to be that person. Hillary Rea: Yeah. And bringing this back to storytelling. I didn't feel comfortable with being fully being me until I stepped on a stage and shared a story from my life. And it wasn't that I was trying to be someone else.
I think I just had this idea of like who I should become instead of embracing who I am. And now that storytelling is so ingrained in like everything that I do versus what started as a way to express myself and perform on stage. But even that I was like, oh, I don't have to be a character. I can use my voice in a different way.
And no one's going to tell me it has to sound a certain way. That's the way I'm loyal to myself is like being okay with who I am and like loving who I am, but because I can feel comfortable sharing who I am with others. And when I hear other people share stories, like when you share stories or just out in the world, I feel better about myself too, and not better, like, oh, I'm better off than that person, but I think I'm not alone.
And so then I have more self loyalty because I can trust that I'm not alone in how I feel or what's happening. Nancy: I always loved storytelling and I loved Hillary's approach. It was exactly what I wanted to do. A perfect way to build some loyalty into my business and into my life. Now that I've rewritten myself back into the narrative of my business, not only am I more engaged in my work, but so are my clients. The more I share my story, the more people respond that they feel less alone, which is exactly why I made the change.
My husband, Doug has seen it firsthand.
Nancy: Okay. So this is the conversation with Doug. Take one.
Doug Harris: Take one.
Nancy: Okay. So introduce yourself just for the kicks and giggles of it.
Doug Harris: I'm Doug Harris. Nancy Jane, Smith's husband, the guy that believes in her the most.
Nancy: Ah, that's so sweet. What's your definition of self loyalty? Doug Harris: Self loyalty's a tricky one because there’s what you want to do, that's loyal to you. And then there's what everyone else is doing that’s loyal to them. And you really have to choose what you want to do over what everybody else is doing. Sometimes they will be like, that's not the best thing for you, but you know that what is best for you and you do that.
And that's when you're being self loyal.
Nancy: Have you seen, would you say you've seen me change in my practice of self loyalty?
Doug Harris: Definitely not just in your, like your practice of your everyday self, but in your practice as a whole, it's a confidence, it's a belief system. It's a yes, literally a way that you carry yourself when you walk around the house, maybe because I didn't ever see walk around the office, but you you're very like proud of look, I, I helped my clients.
They've made progress. I only needed to help them this short period of time and that's great for them.
Nancy: Yeah. Cause I feel like I was in this year, this past year, I've really tried to change my focus from what the marketing experts told me I should do. And to more following my own experience and knowing what works.
Doug Harris: For you, the, the high functioning. I mean, if there's the poster child, sweetheart, you are. it So, you know, pretty well, what's going to work and to set aside one hour, every so often to hopefully meet all your problems, doesn't work as well as the way that you do it. And you know that and you care.
Nancy: So one thing I felt with my high-functioning anxiety was like, I was the only freak in the world that had this.
And so being able to share my story helps people feel less lonely. And you, we were talking last night about authenticity and how that, I think I've discovered that as kind of a superpower of mine.
Doug Harris: I mean, I don't know that you could be non authentic anymore. You're kind of like here I am. And here's what I think and love you.
Nancy: Adding this vulnerability to my business life. It has been a hard change. One that I work at every single day, but it's taught me that change is slow and deliberate. Change is hard and it's worth it when it's grounded in a powerful why. This past year of change has been scary, raw and vulnerable and gratifying.
Gone is the boredom and the going through the motions. But this is also not a story of redemption. The big change I made was not a story of me fixing myself. This was me approaching change, not from a place of needing to be fixed, but a place of seeing what's possible when I lean into self loyalty.
Nancy: That's it for this week. In our next episode, we're going to look at change in the brain. I’ll speak to a professor of psychology, who actually studies how our brain forms habits and the brain science behind reaching our goals. That's next time on the happier approach. The happier approach is produced by Nicki Stein and me Nancy Jane Smith.
Music provided by pod five and epidemic sound. For more episodes, to get in touch or to learn more about self loyalty school, you can visit nancyjanesmith.com. And if you like the show, leave us a review. It actually helps us out a lot.
Special. Thanks to Hillary Rea and Doug Harris for speaking with us today. As you heard firsthand, Hillary is an amazing storyteller and communicator. If you'd like to work with her, you can get in touch at tellmeastory.info.
The happier approach will be back with another episode in two weeks. Take care until then.